об архитектурной проработке

link 29.03.2019 7:37

Subject: об архитектурной проработке construct.

Из протокола собрания:

СЛУШАЛИ:

[И.И. Иванова] об архитектурной проработке возможности строительства многоэтажного жилого дома на свободном земельном участке...

architectural analysis?

Спасибо

leka11 ✉

link 29.03.2019 8:45

это не анализ, а предпроектная подготовка - предпроектные решения, в т.ч. архитектурные

см.http://www.unirost.ru/documentation-development/#1
раздел "Архитектурно-строительная проработка выполняются в несколько этапов"

"Архитектурные проектные проработки выполнены на уровне архитектурно-строительного раздела стадии «проект» с эскизной проработкой вариантов отдельных решений в процессе проектирования с целью получения комплексного исходного материала для углубительной детальной разработки проекта на стадии «рабочая документация» для строительства объекта....."

leka11 ✉

link 29.03.2019 8:49

анализ - лишь один из элементов

см http://jorgefontan.com/pre-design-architecture/
PRE DESIGN PHASE ARCHITECTURE
Project Goals
Site Selection
Site Analysis
Title Search
Zoning Analysis
Existing Building Assessment
Programming
Budgeting
Pro Forma
Project Team Selection

mikhailS ✉

link 29.03.2019 8:58

а это часом не feasibility study?
вот например:
An architectural feasibility study investigates and evaluates the potential of a site or building. It clearly sets out a brief history of the site, its overall condition and significance, as well as the constraints and opportunities.

mikhailS ✉

link 29.03.2019 8:59

ссылку забыл
https://www.tatestevenson.com/single-post/2018/01/22/What-is-an-Architectural-Feasibility-Study

4uzhoj ✉ moderator

link 29.03.2019 9:02

feasibility study - отличный вариант
кстати, советую добавить в словарь

mikhailS ✉

link 29.03.2019 9:18

то есть
архитектурная проработка -- architectural feasibility study?

Я бы предпочел если бы кто-нибудь из здешних "строителей" добавил, поскольку это как бы не совсем моя тема.
(но со ссылкой на меня, разумеется, для потомков типа :-))
Или хотите сами добавьте, если сочтете нужным.

4uzhoj ✉ moderator

link 29.03.2019 10:20

А почему не хотите добавить от себя?

Подождем результатов обсуждения и мнения "здешних строителей", однако пара выглядит вполне адекватной.

[Кстати, пользуясь случаем, прошу при добавлении статей любой текст, не являющийся непосредственно переводом (пометы, примечания, пояснения, примеры употребления и т.д.), писать в поле "Комментарий", а не в скобках до или после перевода]

mikhailS ✉

link 29.03.2019 12:23

Гм, похоже что здешние строители не спешат высказаться :-(
А жаль.

Жаль, что мы так и не услышали начальника транспортного цеха (c) :-)

Alex16 ✉

link 29.03.2019 12:57

Пока согласен с этим вариантом. architectural feasibility study FOR (OF/WITH RESPECT TO) [возможности строительства: "возможности" убрать, чтобы сделать предложение менее громоздким - без OF the possibility OF construction?]

дальше извечные вопросы: предлоги, артикли...

mikhailS ✉

link 29.03.2019 12:59

напрмер так
AN architectural feasibility study INTO the possibility TO build..

Alex16 ✉

link 29.03.2019 16:28

...for possible...

johnstephenson ✉

link 29.03.2019 21:18

'an architectural feasibility study with regard to (constructing/building^†) ......'
^† 'to construct' and 'to build' mean exactly the same, but 'to construct' = technical (architects') English, whereas 'to build' = standard English. So 'to construct' and 'construction' tend to be used more in architects' papers etc.

You don't really need to include 'possibility' in the English, as 'feasibility study' implies that constructing it may or may not be feasible/practicable.

'на свободном земельном участке' = 'on a vacant plot of land'.

mikhailS ✉

link 30.03.2019 8:37

It's nice to have a native speaker around, isn't it?)))

Actually, it did occur to me that 'possibility' might be superfluous here, as 'feasibility' and 'possibility' are pretty much synonyms. (Aren't they?)
Here is an example from an online dictionary:
We're looking at the feasibility of building a shopping centre there.
In other words, they are trying to determine whether it's possible/feasible to build a shopping center there. So I guess, you could argue that the two words are almost interchangeable.

What about the 'architectural feasibility study' though? Do you think it's a good enough translation of 'архитектурной проработке' and can therefore be perpetuated (for lack of a better word :-)) as an MT entry?..

Syrira ✉

link 30.03.2019 9:33

I'm afraid, 'feasibility' and 'possibility' are not quite synonymous in construction because it might be poissible to build some facility (if there is money, willingness, the need, etc.) but not feasible from the viewpoint of cost-effectiveness ratio which is the key feasibility criteria.

johnstephenson ✉

link 30.03.2019 12:58

mikhailS: Your and 4uzhoj's Russian is better than mine, so I would put it in. I do think your 'feasibility study' is a very good idea. I tried to keep it in, but if you do you have problems with the prepositions afterwards, so I paraphrased it slightly. I think that if sth's a study of the feasibility of sth, people will probably realise that it equates to a feasibility study.

johnstephenson ✉

link 30.03.2019 14:22

Syrira: You could be right, but in practice there may be little/no difference in this case. In some cases 'feasible' means that sth 'can be done successfully/cost-effectively/profitably', but in others it just means that it 'can be done', so it covers both scenarios. Unfortunately you can't say 'a possibility study', whereas 'feasibility study' is a commonly-used phrase.

If it specifically means that it's physically possible to build it (but not necessarily cost-effective/profitable), you could say 'a study of whether it is physically possible to construct x' or just say that it's 'a study of whether it is possible to construct x' without specifying what 'possible' means, but is that all that 'возможность' means here?

I'm not sure which of these it means here, so I'll leave others with native Russian to decide.

Syrira ✉

link 30.03.2019 15:19

yes, sure it's an architectural feasibility study here, I just wanted to say that it's not always advisable for a translator to omit the word "possibility" in the context of a feasibility study since there may be "возможность" and "целесообразность" going together in one and the same text.

mikhailS ✉

link 30.03.2019 17:40

I tried to keep it in, but if you do you have problems with the prepositions afterwards, so I paraphrased it slightly. I think that if sth's a study of the feasibility of sth, people will probably realise that it equates to a feasibility study

(Scratching head)
You lost me there, John.
I mean, I'm just completely and totally --what was that word, again? -- ah, discombobulated! :-)
Could you please expand on your comment? Firstly, what problems and with which [afterwards] prepositions do I have, exactly? And secondly, what does 'people realizing that if sth's a study of the feasibility of sth, it equates to a feasibility study' have to do with anything?..
Like I said I'm just totally ~~discombobu..~~ (oh, for God's sake, what are we -- a bunch of snobbies, using pretentious words? :-)) confused here..)

mikhailS ✉

link 30.03.2019 17:55

Hold on a second: I think I just had an idea (having read your comment for the fifth time!) for the first part of the conundrum :-)
Did you mean prOpositions rather than prEpositions?
If that's the case, it would all make so much more sense, but I'd still be ~~discombobul..~~(oh, for @uck's sake! :-)) confused, because I really don't think I said something that would have (or could have possibly!) suggested that I was having problems with your prOpositions.
All I did was seek your advice/opinion on whether the 'architectural feasibility study' (as in the term 'architectural feasibility study') was a good equivalent (if at all) to the Russian phrase 'архитектурной проработке'.
And let me just say it out loud, John: your propositions/explanations are always top of the line and nobody in their right minds would ever take issue with them! Okay? ;-)

So, which one is it: prEpositions or prOpositions?..)

mikhailS ✉

link 30.03.2019 18:01

Almost forgot:
30.03.2019 12:33 link
A representative of the elusive "здешних строителей" (pls see above) has finally graced the thread with her presence ;-)))

johnstephenson ✉

link 31.03.2019 23:21

mikhailS: Oh dear....

I can now see that I meant to post a comment between 30.03.19 @ 0:18 and 30.03.19 @ 15:58 above, but that for some reason it didn't get posted – probably due to me pressing the wrong key rather than any problem with the website. Without that the post at 15:58 doesn't make a lot of sense, so just ignore it and take para 1 at 0:18 —

'an architectural feasibility study with regard to (constructing/building)......'

— as being my suggested translation.

You can stop scratching your head now. :-)

Alex16 ✉

link 1.04.2019 5:37

Thank you, John, Machael and Syrira!

You need to be logged in to post in the forum

Get short URL