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 Alex16

link 17.03.2019 12:31 
Subject: Оценка проводилась без учета НДС law
Из сертификата оценки:

Оценка проводилась без учета НДС.

(вроде простой вопрос, но... на нормальном языке это должно означать, что оценочная стоимость не включала НДС?)

Спасибо

 leka11

link 17.03.2019 14:12 
без (учета) НДС = не включала НДС

 Alex16

link 17.03.2019 15:59 
оценочная стоимость - я бы не стал писать "appraisal value", а написал бы our valuation did not include VAT...

 leka11

link 17.03.2019 16:42 
+1

 johnstephenson

link 17.03.2019 21:43 
Alex16 18:59 +1

'did not (or does not if the valuation is still valid) include VAT'.

 Alex16

link 18.03.2019 8:23 
Спасибо.

Кстати, заказчик прислал судебный документ на англ., где написано evaluation. Поэтому меняю везде appraisal на evaluation. Но кто тогда оценщик - valuator или все же appraiser? Поищу в документе.

 johnstephenson

link 18.03.2019 16:57 
Two questions:
1) What's being valued? Is it buildings, land, a company, or something else?
2) Does the document refer to the UK or the US? Some of the terms used in the two countries differ.

If it's buildings/land:
When referring to buildings or land, Americans tend to call them 'real estate', whereas Britons tend to call them 'property' (although 'real estate' will be understood). For this reason, when assessing the market value of buildings or land, Brits tend to refer to 'property valuations' rather than 'appraisals'.

In the UK, property valuations are typically carried out by a 'property valuer' or sometimes (if it's just land being valued) a 'land valuer'. Property/land valuers often work in estate agencies. 'Property valuations' is used more often that 'property evaluations', although 'evaluations' will be understood.

A '(real estate) appraisal' may be the US term for what Britons call a 'property valuation' – but I'm not sure.

It all depends on what's being valued and which country it's being valued in.

 Alex16

link 18.03.2019 18:41 
The subject property is a building. The documents relate to a dispute that arose in one of the former CIS republics, but I don't know whether it will be handled by US or British lawyers.

 mikhailS

link 18.03.2019 18:54 
FYI, типа:
Большинство иностранцев никогда не слышали про CIS и не поймут о чем речь (знаю по опыту) даже если это расшифровать (Commonwealth of Independent States)
Обычно используется термин "FSU" (former soviet union), the FSU republics.

 johnstephenson

link 18.03.2019 19:25 
** Большинство иностранцев никогда не слышали про CIS **
Durrr.... Well, I have. If people who deal with Russia don't know what the CIS is by now, they should be shot!

 mikhailS

link 18.03.2019 19:47 
Durrr...Well, after all, you are not your average Joe, now are you? ;-)

And the people I am referring to, do not necessarily "deal" with Russia (or any of them FSU republics for that matter): they come here to work and the term they will normally use is "FSU" rather than "CIS". They just wouldn't know what the heck "CIS" is. (ignorant bastards!:-))

@they should be shot!
How about "buggered" instead? :-)))

 johnstephenson

link 18.03.2019 20:05 
** How about "buggered" instead? **
Excellent idea! I'll delegate that task to you.... :-D

 mikhailS

link 18.03.2019 20:10 
Nah, I am not into... you know ))))

 johnstephenson

link 18.03.2019 20:34 
Burglary?

 Amor 71

link 18.03.2019 20:53 
///Кстати, заказчик прислал судебный документ на англ., где написано evaluation. Поэтому меняю везде appraisal на evaluation///
Что за evaluation???

valuation - финансовая оценка. Сколько стоит.
evaluation - физическая оценка. Как выглядит, в каком состоянии.

 johnstephenson

link 18.03.2019 21:39 
Alex16: OK, so it's a building.

In that case, you may find this Wikipedia article useful. I've just found it and it seems to confirm that 'property valuations' in the UK are known as 'real estate appraisals' in the US. It explains the different terms relating to valuations as used in the US and UK – see the Contents board – and can tell you much more than I can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_appraisal

If you don't know whether it's going to US lawyers or British ones, I would just choose one of them and then try to use the terms used in that country. If it contains US terms but ends up going to UK lawyers dealing with foreign property, they should understand most of the American terms, I'd have thought.

 johnstephenson

link 18.03.2019 22:09 
Amor 71 +1

In everyday English,
* A 'valuation' is usually an assessment of the financial value of something. It's usually expressed as a specific figure, eg $5.6 million, £135,000 or whatever.
* An 'evaluation' is more general: it's an assessment of how good/bad/suitable/unsuitable/efficient/inefficient something is – not specifically an assessment of its financial value.

An 'evaluation' may have a more specific meaning in the field of property; I don't know. See the Wikipedia article for clues.

 Amor 71

link 18.03.2019 22:27 
I just completed my MBA degree. The last course was a disaster.
The question says "analyze" such and such thing. I wrote several pages and was proud of myself. Professor failed. He said "I asked to analyze and you evaluated". The next assessment he asked to evaluate, and I for sure did it wrong again and analyzed.
I still don't get the difference.

 qp

link 19.03.2019 0:26 
2 Amor 71
"I just completed my MBA degree"
От души рада за вас! Поздравляю!)

А в чем проблема онять разницу между анализом чего-то и оценкой (в контексте ваших assignments)?

 qp

link 19.03.2019 0:27 
Сорри, клава старая: не онять, а понять)

 Amor 71

link 19.03.2019 2:25 
Благодарю.

Вот, к примеру, два вопроса.

1. Analyzes principles and procedural methodologies to resolve ethical problems.

2. Evaluate principles and procedural methodologies to resolve ethical problems.

Лично я не знаю, как надо ответить на оба вопроса, чтобы не повторить себя же.

 Alex16

link 19.03.2019 7:13 
Я, кстати, не исключаю, что предоставленный мне справочный текст переводили простые люди и потому могли там наделать множество ошибок.

 qp

link 19.03.2019 11:14 
2 Amor 71

"1. Analyze principles and procedural methodologies to resolve ethical problems.
2. Evaluate principles and procedural methodologies to resolve ethical problems.
Лично я не знаю, как надо ответить на оба вопроса, чтобы не повторить себя же."

Мне это так представляется:
Анализ (чего-либо) = что, для чего, где, когда?
Оценка = теперь вы даете оценку того, что выше сформулировали: чужую сначала, если таковая была (или были), а потом уже свою, чтоб в плагиат не вляпнуть;)

 johnstephenson

link 19.03.2019 20:22 
Amor 71: Congratulations! "Today – translator; tomorrow – CEO of Trados"!

Exam-setters and academics are notorious for being pedantic, but I suppose:
* to 'analyse' something means to study it/examine it/look at its various parts/look at how it works/describe it in detail etc; whereas
* to 'evaluate' something means to say how good/bad or suitable/unsuitable or efficient/inefficient etc it is.
Something like that, anyway.

I've never really understood the difference between 'methodologies' and 'methods' myself. And why say 'procedural methodologies' when you can just say 'procedures'? It just leaves the reader feeling discombobulated (='confused' in Earth language!)

 johnstephenson

link 19.03.2019 20:30 
analyse (UK) = analyze (US), of course.

 Amor 71

link 19.03.2019 22:08 
Thanks, John.

 qp

link 20.03.2019 18:38 
14:14 Сорри, очепятка: "не вляпнуть"--> не влипнуть/ не вляпаться

 mikhailS

link 20.03.2019 19:37 
18.03.2019 23:34 link
Well, since burglary is obviously a euphemism (or at least it's rapidly becoming one, courtesy of your good self, btw ;-)) for you-know-what, then, yes, I am not into that stuff! :-)
Hell, no! :-)

 bredogenerator

link 21.03.2019 14:13 
discombobulated
Thank you, johnstephenson, I've just learmed a new USEFUL word!-:)

 johnstephenson

link 22.03.2019 0:42 
bredogenerator: Actually, it's hardly ever used, except humorously! It's usually quoted in English as an example of an unnecessarily long and complicated word. This Colombian lady seems to be having problems with it, anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtmRMXflMk8

(The other word mentioned in the clip is 'flabbergasted' [=very surprised] which, strangely, is heard quite often in informal/spoken English).

 mikhailS

link 22.03.2019 11:40 
Ahem,
it took me a while to figure out that the androgynous character on the right is actually a woman! :-)
There's something inherently creepy about her. Gives me the willies :-(

 mikhailS

link 22.03.2019 11:45 
Almost forgot:
Another (shall we say ?)"sonorous" word is 'bamboozle' )
I mean, I just love the way it sounds: 'bamboozle'! :-D

 johnstephenson

link 22.03.2019 14:08 
Presumably when you first heard 'bamboozle', your flabber was completely gasted? :-)

'Gobbledygook' [=very confusing (or meaningless) jargon] is another one.

 mikhailS

link 22.03.2019 14:25 
Not exactly. I was discombobulated rather than flabbergasted :-)))

And 'gobbledygook' is what this 'discussion' is gradually sliding into :-D

Incidentally, (while you're at it) care to check an Alex's thread below and weigh in, perhaps?..

 

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