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Subject: will pe performed or as per stated accuracy in the sizing results gen. Прошу помочь перевести фразу из Deviation ListVENDOR'S PROPOSALS For the offered Coriolis meters, Certification of Primary Verification will be offered for minimum 0.2% accuracy. Не могу понять последнюю фразу... or здесь не должно быть? Спасибо за идеи, коллеги. |
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link 6.08.2016 18:53 |
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English = 4/10. Looks like Runglish, as they say: 'the offered Coriolis meters' (participle in front of noun rather than after it) and omit a couple of articles. I don't know what 'or as per ...... sizing results' means as both paras are grammatically incorrect. Others may be able to work it out, though. |
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link 6.08.2016 20:59 |
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По результатам проверки номинальных характеристик с заданной точностью. "Или" значит, что дополнительно к результатам поверки выше выполняется штатная калибровка. |
| Большое спасибо. |
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2johnstephenson Somehow I didn't know that a participle cannot precede a noun in a construction like this. Both alternatives are OK grammatically, IMHO. Yet these is a typo, "pe". Возможно, что и or - от той же самой небрежности. По крайней мере текст выглядит невразумительным. |
| *there is |
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link 7.08.2016 12:14 |
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Hi Phyloneer. You can have a participle before a noun, and it's very common, but in some cases (inc this one) it looks un-English. There's no rule that I'm aware of that says where participles should go. Some tend to go before the noun, some after, and in some cases they can go either side. Here are a few examples: * the meters offered (not the offered meters) As usual English is much less logical and predictable than Russian, where the participle tends to go before the noun. When it comes to participles 'bundled' with other words, they nearly always go after the noun. So it's.... * the meters offered by our company (not the offered by our company meters) Unfortunately I don't know of a rule/guide that would help you further; you just have to 'play it by ear'. |
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Hi, John. I think we can try to elaborate some rule. In a paticiple+noun construction the participle characterises a more or less 'static' property of the subject denoted by the noun. The check can be like this: Can it be said The boy IS disappointed, not only HAS BEEN? (whether it is or not that he is disappointed just now or that is a repeated occurrence). If so (which is the case), then it should be said 'disappointed boy'. There is a parallel in Russian: 'offered product' = предлагаемая продукция 'product offered' = предложенная продукция. The latter alternative refers to a unique, singular occurence. Of course, there are exceptions, e.g. people concerned and concerned people differ in meaning. As regards participle phrases (participles 'bundled' with other words) it goes without saying that they require postposition (not without exceptions, though.) |
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link 12.08.2016 11:40 |
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Interesting points. Yes, you can say 'is disappointed', but there it's being used more as an adjective than a participle. So you can also say 'is very disappointed'. The same doesn't apply to (say) 'attacked', which is used only as a participle; you can't say 'is very attacked', for example. Your 'product offered' example isn't a good example of a uniquely single occurrence, because you can say 'the product offered on 12th May, 12th June and 12th July isn't available this month'. Also, although you can say 'the offered product' in some situations, normally it doesn't sound 'English'; instead you'd probably say either 'the product being offered' (if it were happening now), or even (in some situations) 'the product on offer'. As with a lot of things in English, it's not whether it's logical that matters, but whether it sounds right or not, which is much more difficult to define in rules. |
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link 12.08.2016 11:44 |
| мама, где я? |
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John, I've read your reply, and I find it useful. Thank you. Don't you think that the possibility of some intermediate stage between adjective and participle can be assumed? It's true that in phrases like offered product, proposed solution etc. (which are very common) the "offered", "proposed" are not being adjectives formally, e.g. "very" cannot be used with them, but it probably can be said that they actually function as adjectives in that type of usage; likewise, the meaning is changed with respect to both the product offered and product being offered. The difference I mean is very well exposed by the example you've referred to: if we say product offered on 12 May etc. it doesn't affect the uniqueness of each specific offer that took place on each date. Every offer still remains unique (perhaps we'd better call it specific), so one should say product offered, on every occasion (even without supplements). Meanwhile, the offered product IMHO does contain differences to both product being offered and product offered. It describes some state other than current one (unlike the continuous form), and, on the other part, it's different from a unique occurrence (product offered), it's unspecific; and it is more general with respect to both cases. |
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Consider this: Flaws are detected (from time to time). → Detected flaws should be eliminated. Flaws have been detected. → The flaws detected should be eliminated. The same is about the offered products, IMHO. |
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link 12.08.2016 12:48 |
| OMG |
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