Subject: OFF: advice Hey all!If you were asked to do a training/set of trainings for support staff in a large firm (PAs and DAs to Archivists) on Business wrtiting and Business English, what topics would you choose? Basically, I have been told to design something which will improve their skills, but is not a language lesson. Any ideas on topics which wont make them groan? |
Being courteous |
Well, yes. That is the obvious topic... but beyond that? |
Talk to them about using clear, concise language. No Tolstoevsky in business English! Russian schools are bad at teaching composition for the real, business world. |
So far, I have these ideas. Would you leave anything out or add anything? formal and "business casual" vs. informal And some of these (punctuation) were requested by those who will participate. |
When I read our clients' e-mails, I wish they knew some of the below: Be Concise, Specific, Coherent, and Complete in Business Letters Avoid verbosity: Time is a valuable commodity, and most people have no desire to wade through an entire paragraph in search of the writer’s meaning. Then again, people should never be so abrupt as to appear rude or curt. They should, however, omit irrelevant, excess verbiage and strive for conciseness. |
Another best practice I try to instill in my colleagues is, simply put, simplicity. Most of them formulate their sentences in Russian, in their heads, and then translate into English. This only works when you break down your thoughts into very simple, straightforward chunks that will translate well. I tell them: avoid complex constructions, idioms, jokes, or informal language. Unless you're a translator, these are an embarrassment just waiting to happen! |
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link 21.01.2010 9:15 |
dear SirReal что за чудный термин Толстоевский! Вы случайно не знаете, откуда он пошел, и что конкретно означает? нашла только это While most translators agree Garnett was devoted to the text, they criticize her for homogenizing Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, producing what Volokhonsky calls "Tolstoyevsky." Это реально Волохонская придумала? |
You may discuss 'false friends' and typical mistakes Russians make in English. AE vs BE is an interesting topic. |
SirReal I have been trying to explain that to colleagues for a LOOONG time now! (And I mean that about both points). They listen for about a week and then go back to old habits.. delta |
Oh, Susan79 I would love to get some training from you! too bad you're too far away :( |
Толстоевского придумали Ильф и Петров. А Набоков придумал "великий русский роман Anna Karamazov" |
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link 21.01.2010 9:57 |
упс. спасибо ))) |
you can also add Phrasal verbs with 'Go, Get, Turn, Take etc' and 'Verbs and prepositions' |
D-50 Thanks for the idea. The phrasal verbs need to be added |
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link 21.01.2010 10:50 |
>>something which will improve their skills, but is not a language lesson.>> Для указанной задачи у вас уже набирается поле необъятное. Надо сужать круг вопросов, однозначно. |
Metaphores that may be funny for Business English learners http://www.hbr-russia.ru/blogs/18/1161 |
I like this example of business writing in action: http://www.dw-jotd.com/classic/business/organization.htm |
eu-br... that's great! |
Яркий пример "каскадирования" :)) |
Susan79: вы уже не первый носитель языка, который преподает этот язык, но замечен мной как путающий употребление/неупотребление апострофа (word choice and it’s importance in terms of image and tone). |
извините за небольшой офф в этом оффе, знаете, Susan в нашем мультитрановском комьюнити напоминает мне Джоанну Стингрей, помните такую в питерской рокерской тусовке конца 80-х? мне кажется, она так же искренне и бескорыстно любит нашу Россию, и готова ее изучать и изучать :) Спасибо тебе, Susan, приятно, что нейтив-спикер тусит в наших кругах! |
Swoosh, _Ann_ прошу прощения за назойливость и неосведомленность, но не могу не спросить. Мадам Susan79 действительно носитель или это у нее фенька такая, а вы тонко стбететесь над этим? |
действительно |
Hatsch, я так тонко не могу стебаться :) |
Hatch, действительно носитель. Действительно стебусь. |
For starter I would choose something like correct writing of business letters or a kind of business correspondence maintainence, but however it depends on the level of your "students". It also would be helpful to give them some tips on preparing of presentations, which i know is more specific and refers mostly to general business skills development, but some basic notes in English will be very helpful. |
plus i would be very thanksful if someone like you (who has got knowledge of both languages) could help me to build up a synonymic row of the most frequently used words (verbs) in business English with conditions of practical application of course. |
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link 22.01.2010 20:31 |
maintainence - новояз? |
Swoosh is the PERFECT candidate for the "how not to come across as a complete asshole" portion of the training... ))) |
по теме: I agree with some of what's already been said (SirReal, Supa Translata). Susan, as I understand, your target audience is somewhat of a hodgepodge, so it would make exceedingly hard to cover all of the topics you outlined and make your training useful for everybody. I would stick to the basics (bare bones, really) of English composition, especially when it's applied to writing business letters. I would do a lot of "good example" - "bad example" sort of thing, and I would give them a lot of ready-made sentences, with their Russian translations. |
lisulya 23:59 +1 |
Susan, have you seen Lynn Visson's Русские проблемы в английской речи? Там можно подобрать много идей. Although, the book is more for interpreters rather than translators. |
Про нейтив-спикерство вспомнилось. После 2-х где-то лет работы переводчиком я считала себя афигенно какой опытной, а как же. И вот дают мне для ассистентства босса, уроженца Сев.Ирладнии. А раньше я все больше с японо-китайце-турко-итальянцами и иже с ними, а бритов попадалось всего раз, два и обчелся. И вот у нас с ним период взаимной адаптации, поначалу не только его акцент казался непривычным, лексику кое-какую не узнавала, но и просто "контекстуальные" так сказать "непонятки" были: опыт, культура, возраст, понимание бизнеса – все разное. И вообще, он топ-менеджер, а я? И вот в какой-то момент недовольство друг другом достигло апогея, он мне что-то предъявил (не помню уже что), а я с горечью и некоторым раздражением заявила ему: Sometimes I don’t understand your English! Он изумленно на меня уставился: MY English??!! я тут же представила, как мне кто-н. выучивший язык говорит что-то про то, какой фиговый у меня русский, и мне стало как-то совестливо.. |
Swoosh Come of it man. Even natives can make a flippin mistake when they type ina hurry. (see, it happened again) And it could be that I am lazy on forums and on stupid things like FaceBook, as are most natives because we know that other natives don't care and will understand us in any case. And yes, I am an ACTUAL LIVING BREATHING (ИНОГДА ОЩИБАЮЩИЙ) NATIVE. "Swoosh is the PERFECT candidate for the "how not to come across as a complete asshole" portion of the training... )))" hahahah! No offence meant. OTHERS: As this monster really is a hodgepodge kind of group, thanks for the advice! |
Swoosh Come of it man. Even natives can make a flippin mistake when they type ina hurry. (see, it happened again) And it could be that I am lazy on forums and on stupid things like FaceBook, as are most natives because we know that other natives don't care and will understand us in any case. And yes, I am an ACTUAL LIVING BREATHING (ИНОГДА ОЩИБАЮЩИЙ) NATIVE. "Swoosh is the PERFECT candidate for the "how not to come across as a complete asshole" portion of the training... )))" hahahah! No offence meant. OTHERS: As this monster really is a hodgepodge kind of group, thanks for the advice! |
whoops... how did I end up with 2 of the same answer? |
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