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Subject: Remembrance Day In Ukraine we have got holidays like Victory Day and Поминальный день. These two holidays are today this year. On the 9th of May we honour those who died in the Great Patriotic War, and on Поминальный день those (our relatives and friends) who died, not pertaining to the war. Therefore, we can't translate Поминальный день as Rememberance Day since it is different to the meaning used in the UK where the British honour those who died in the wars. If we translate our Поминальный день as Rememberance Day it means for them that we honour only those who died during the war, but that is not right.How would you translate Поминальный день? Does Tomb-Sweeping Day make sense? |
| имхо Commemoration Day |
| Memorial Day не подойдет? |
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I'm not sure as in the UK Memorial Day - A day, May 30, appointed for commemorating, by decorating their graves with flowers, by patriotic exercises, ·etc., the dead soldiers and sailors who served the Civil War (1861-65) in the United States; Decoration Day. It is a legal holiday in most of the States. In the Southern States, the Confederate Memorial Day is: May 30 in Virginia; April 26 in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi; May 10 in North Carolina and South Carolina; the second Friday in May in Tennessee; June 3 in Louisiana. Today, I've translated Поминальный день as Commemoration Day and was told that Remembrance Day is the correct word, however, I'm not still sure that that's right. |
| Sorry, USA |
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link 9.05.2005 18:32 |
| Descriptive option: Day of Prayer for the Dead |
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Tomb-Sweeping sounds like something Lara Croft would do. Day of Prayer for the Dead is good. Or, perhaps, consider ...for the Departed. |
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По-моему, все дело в том, что у американцев просто не существует такого понятия. Есть Remembrance Day, у нас это, к примеру, 9 мая. В этот день у нас люди возлагают цветы на могилы павших в годы войны, поминают их, не забывают про фронтовые 100 грамм. А Поминальный день это нечто иное. Commemoration Day, по моему, звучит более адекватно, просто нужно обьясить разницу. Day of Prayer for the Dead имхо не подходит. Ведь далеко не все люди в Поминальные дни ходят в церьковь помолиться. Многие просто приходят на могилы и/или собираются дома с родственниками. |
| Thank you very much everybody!!! |
| On Memorial Day in the U.S., we remember both soldiers, who died in wars, and our diseased relatives, who never fought in any wars. I also like other suggestions given here. I would side with Kath concerning the Lara Croft-inspired "tomb sweeping," though. :))) |
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link 9.05.2005 19:20 |
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I guess nobody has checked Multitran: -All Souls' Day - Commemoration of the Faithful Departed Day- день поминовения усопших http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?t=1103210_1_2 to Letwik: 1. One does not have to go to church to pray. 2. Yes, not everybody prays on this day: for some, it's just another reason to get drunk; however, we should not call it Another Reason to Get Drunk Day, should we? to kath & ms801: |
| Truth Seeker: Re item 3 in your list: все равно, не так много общего с Украиной :-) |
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Letvik - isn't 9 May in Russia called Victory Day? It's called Victory Day in the US and UK (although marked on the 8th, I believe). Where is 9 May called Remembrance Day? MS801 - I have never heard of US Memorial Day honoring both war veterans and dead relatives (friends), so out of curiousity I perused several websites on US Memorial Day and neither mentioned remembrance of dead relatives. Only relatives (or not) that died 'while in service to their country'. Are you absolutely sure we're supposed to be remembering all who are dead? Day of Prayer (for whatever) no longer supposes that people actually pray. It's a sort of synonym for remembrance. Quite often a non-religious person, going to a particularly important event (major exam, job interview, etc.), would say to his/her partner or friend "say a prayer". |
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link 9.05.2005 19:54 |
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To Irisha: You never know, Irisha, you just never know. Копни любого русского и найдешь в нем татарина. А если копнуть украинца, можут и китайцы попрут. :-))) (no offence meant) Besides, I was not advocating the usage of Tomb Sweeping Day. My comment was purely educational. |
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Kath, sure, it is Victory Day. I just meant that any day dedicated to the fallen warriors might be called Remembrance Day, not as the name of a particular holiday but a general notion. Here I refer Victory Day, Remembrance Day itself etc. Maybe I was wrong but that's what I meant. |
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I'm sure Victory Day and Remembrance Day have the same meaning. It does't matter where in Ukraine or Russia. If you talk about the Ukrainians you will never find Chiness origin (китайцы не попрут - 100%). I'd guess Day of Prayer for the Dead is OK. But I've just tried to explaint what it means to a UK citizen it seems he understood. Without explanation neirther Day of Prayer for the Dead not Commemorenceance Day for them does not make sense. |
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link 9.05.2005 23:24 |
| To kintorov: Would Halloween, St. Patrick's Day or Kwanzaa without explanation mean anything to a Russian? |
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link 10.05.2005 4:01 |
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maybe something like, Faithful Departed Day? it may sound unnecessarily poetic and cranberrish, though. truth seeker: i could surmise what u meant in ur reponse to kintorov, but ur examples do not serve ur purpose. both halloween and st patty's day have entered russian collective consciousness, both could be viewed as memes, and as such do not require any explaining. |
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I've understood there is no direct equivalent of this word combination. I like Day of Prayer for the Dead (Departed). Thanks everybody. |
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link 10.05.2005 5:54 |
| to kornet: OK, these holidays do not need an explanation anymore, but some 10-15 years ago, few Russians new what they were. Some explaining must have been done at some point. So, maybe, just maybe, in 10-15 years from now, no clarification will be required for Day of Prayer for the Dead/ Deceased/Departed - all thanks to Kintorov. :-)))) |
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link 10.05.2005 6:24 |
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2 kintorov - Just noticed: Victory Day and Remembrance Day do NOT mean and are NOT the same! The former falls on 11th of November, the latter – 9th of May in Russia, for the rest of the world( imho) it is called VE-Day (Victory in Europe) and is celebrated on the 8th of May. Remembrance Day - The Sunday closest to November 11, observed in Canada and Great Britain in commemoration of those killed in the World Wars. Victory in Europe Day (V-E Day or VE Day) was May 8, 1945, the date when the Allies during the Second World War formally celebrated the defeat of Nazi Germany and the end of Adolf Hitler's Third Reich. to kath: "Today, many Americans use Memorial Day weekend to also honor family members who have passed away. Church services on the Sunday prior to Memorial Day may include a reading of the names of members who have died during the previous 12 months. |
| I know this difference, what I meant is the translation from Russian or Ukrainian into English. 9 мая - Victory Day (or Remembrance Day in translation ). |
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link 10.05.2005 6:49 |
| I though 9th of May was called Victory Day (День Победы). Has it been changed? All papers here today say "Victory Day in Russia", no mentioning of Remembrance Day in Russia. |
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Official holiday is Victory Day, that's right, but if you translated from Ukrainian or Russian and called it remebrance day it would be correct from interpreting standpoint. I am not arguing about it. I just wanted to know the equivalent in English for Поминальный день since many times I heard Remembrance Day, and was not sure it was correct. |
| Kath: I dug up some web sites myself. You are right. In fact, one of the sites clearly states that "some people mistakenly think that Memorial Day is for remembering all of our dead." I guess, I was one of those people.... Thanks for straightening me out. |
| ms801 - i wasn't entirely sure myself. just curious. thanks for letting me know. |
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Подозреваю, что если речь в оригинале, при переводе, как здесь отмечалось, с русского или украинского шла именно о "поминовении" (усопших), то, возможно, речь просто шла о православном празднике Радоницы (Поминовение усопших). Если так, то давно устоявшийся церковный перевод этого - Radonitsa. Commemoration of the dead. Хотя и departed тоже отлично. В этом смысле commemorate ( кого угодно, включая the (citizens)who died in WW II ) вообще, имхо, самый проходной вариант. Кстати, когда к нам на 9 мая приезжали Буш, Ширак и прочие, то в газетах проходило War dead honored - понятно, что здесь, конечно, речь шла уже не о "поминовении усопших" в религиозном смысле слова, т.к. там имелись в виду вообще "павшие" (в войну). (Правда, вряд ли, чтобы в это понятие имплицитно включали, скажем, и солдат вермахта, и лесных братьев, и охранников лагерей и т.п.) |
| Thanks V. (This holiday is one week after Easter.) |
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