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 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 7:03 
Subject: "is vs. are" не дайте подраться друзьям
Как правильно?

Construction and exploitation of oil storages and tanks at sea is banned.
Construction and exploitation of oil storages and tanks at sea are banned.

Только прошу учесть что все не так просто как кажется на первый взгляд. Спасибо заранее.

вышел такой приблизительно спор:
1. У них нет множ числа ни в construction ни в exploitation поэтому is насколько я все понимаю

Здесь запрещено строительство и добыча
а не
Строительство и добыча запрещены здесь

2. Строительство и добыча запрещены здесь
а не
Здесь запрещено строительство и добыча

1.
Смотри чего есть

Sometimes it's all about how you see the subject:
Significant exploration and development is underway to exploit Australia's substantial gas resources.

Here, exploration and developement are treated as a unit taking the singular form of the verb is.

2. Это тоже видели. Но там вначале говорят что are. По-моему это как в случае с fish and chips. Исклбючением когда пишется is могут быть такие примеры как fish and chips, peas and carrots, etc.
Не знаю, но по-моему логично
Фиш энд чипс – это же одно блюдо. Без картофеля или рыбы это уже не фиш энд чипс.

Эрнст энд янг – опытная компания. Тоже самое.

И

они (Construction and exploitation) же they правильно?

1. Но договор всегда подписывается на construction and exploitation.

2. Ну и что. На Них подписывается, да?

И
Это все же не exploration & development

Единственный аргумент который я могу придумать против себя – это то что is обозначает каждого вместе и по отдельности

давай забьем в мтране.

1.

Я тебе говорю, они также будут париться как и мы

Запрещено строительство и добыча

Но не

Запрещены строительство и добыча, запрещены неверно, я не рехнулась, ты меня немного конфьюзд.

2. Запрещены правильно и грамотнее по-русски. Но это всего лишь имхо.

1. я бы настаивала на is не знаю почему.

2. Разве это обоснование?

А я бы на are настоял.

1.
Обснование что construction всегда is exploitation – это неизбежная его часть

2. Избежная.

А так ты была бы права

1. Construction - это основное, все что потом вытекающие последствия, поэтому is

2. По-моему неважно основное или нет

1. Важно, exploitation никогда не будет без construction never ever ever

2. О чем ты?

Смотри:
Construction of oil storages and tanks at sea is banned.
exploitation of oil storages and tanks at sea is banned.

Можешь кричать сколько угодно.

2.
Нет по-русски грамотно запрещено, глагол ставится в форму подлежащего и оно там по одному

1. Где цитата?

Я тоже могу сказать

по-русски грамотно запрещенЫ, глагол НЕ ставится в форму подлежащего и оно там НЕ по одному

прав первый или второй?

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 7:05 
Это из теста по английскому. Английский там не очень. Вопрос не в этом.

 10-4

link 3.07.2008 8:32 
Такие правила обячно хорошо объясняются в Style guid-ах
http://multitran.ru/Download/Technical_Style_Guide.zip

A singular verb is common in English with a double subject if it is felt to form a whole:
Checking and stamping the forms IS the job of the customs authorities.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 9:33 
the sentence above in the same Technical Style Guide:
Each and every are usually singular in usage.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 9:42 
Checking and stamping the forms IS the job of the customs authorities.
here, it is clear that it is felt to form a whole, because we see THE JOB, you can't say ARE the job.
we've got a different sentence
Construction and exploitation of oil storages and tanks at sea is/are banned.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 9:43 
they ARE BOTH banned.

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 9:47 
it is banned.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 9:48 
why IT?
it is banned to do smth.
there is no it, what we got here is THEY

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 9:50 
it is const and expl, it is banned, const and expl at sea is banned.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 9:54 
the first google answers for "is vs are" are:

http://www.englishforums.com/English/IsVsAre/djvgk/post.htm
Can we generalize it like this ;If there is AND between the words( no matter they are countable or uncountable ,or one of them is countable or the other uncountable ) we use Are .

Some seemingly compound subjects that have an "and" but that are considered as a single unit can take the singular "is." Like "fish and chips" is a favorite dish, or "peas and carrots" is the side dish tonight. But as you say, generally the "and" will create the need for "are."

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/other/358967-is_vs_are.html
Phrases such as "together with", "as well as", and "along with" are not the same as "and". The phrase introduced by as well as or along with will modify the earlier word (mayor in this case), but it does not compound the subjects (as the word and would do).
1. The mayor as well as his brothers is going to prison.
2. The mayor and his brothers are going to jail.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 9:58 
Len, where ARE your arguments.
it is const and expl, it is banned, const and expl at sea, and they are both banned, right?

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 10:06 
construction and exploitation is one "do" at sea, logical.
it is not possible to prohibit construction of a new tank and permit exploitation to this tank (funny thing), as well as it is not possible to construct a tank and then prohibit its exploitation at sea, without a permit to explore no-one in the world will construct it ;)

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:08 
this one makes it clear to me:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/General-Writing-Grammar-680/vs-11.htm

uestion
Hi, Anne: Can you please help me, here? I understand the basic differences between using 'is' vs. 'are,' but I get somewhat confused with a sentence like this: I hope one of them is correct? I believe the correct way is: I hope one of them are correct? ...We're referring to 'them' which is plural, so we use: are. Right? What do I do when a sentence includes both singular and plural references? Thank you. Carla

Answer
Hi Carla,

I'm glad to help. The correct sentence is "I hope one of them is correct." The subject of the sentence is "one" and that needs a singular verb, "is". For example, if you took out the "of them" it becomes clearer: "I hope one is correct."

The phrase "of them" is a prepositional phrase and only describes "one", your subject and does not influence your verb at all.

Now, if your sentence were "I think two of them are correct", you would use "are" because the word "two" is plural. You could check it by substituting nouns for the word "two": I think Jane and Mary are correct.

If you are still confused let me know.

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 10:13 
Mir stop digging!
here should is.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:14 
Lena, what you're sayin' is a bit different. what IS the difference if THEY ARE one "do" at sea?
what is the difference if it possible or not to prohibit construction of a new tank and permit exploitation to this tank (funny thing), as well as it is not possible to construct a tank and then prohibit its exploitation at sea, without a permit to explore no-one in the world will construct it ;)
what we're talking about is that both construction and exploitation are banned. this is not fish and chips, you see. Construction could be banned, so is exploitation (THEORETICALLY, of course), but you can't hire Ernst without hiring Young.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:17 
Please, stop arguing without any arguments, Len.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:19 
ernst & young is a very experinced company, but both e&Y and Deloitte are involved in the tender procedure in our company.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:22 
auditing and (all the required) inspections are carried out by E&Y now as it turned out to be a winner.

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 10:22 
we are talking about construction and exploitation as one activity at sea to tanks..
and you are just mixing everything what is possible to mix, good luck!!

 D-50

link 3.07.2008 10:28 
how can you exploit an oil tank? it's a mystery :-)

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 10:40 
exploitation vs. operation - yes you should to. I guess.
english is not polished in the test, the key point is the verb to be.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:42 
first you construct, only then let it exploit. Why do you think they form a whole? One better look it up in some trustworthy source, and cite here

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:49 
The problem is that probably both are possible.
A singular verb is common in English with a double subject if it is felt to form a whole:
Some do feel like to form a whole and some not.
But it certainly should be put somewhere that this one is correct and that one is not. just could not find it.

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 10:54 
I feel it))) just like this.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 10:59 
I think i should bring in the russian here. Translation was clearly made from Russian into Engllish:
Строительство и эксплуатация хранилищ и резервуаров нефти на море запрещается

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 11:01 
or not as clearly...

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 11:04 
it shoud've sounded like:
Construction and operation of oil storages and tanks at sea is are banned.

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 11:08 
запрещаЕтся - is perfect.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 11:14 
Ну Лен, ну не факт.
many happy returns -с днями рождения!

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 11:23 
а ЭиО (эксплуатация и обслуживание) тоже -ются???

 Yanika

link 3.07.2008 11:40 
Привет всем! А мне кажется, что "are". Хотя не могу обосновать, тоже просто чувствую :)
Здесь логика не столь важна, как мне кажется (то, что строительство не может быть без эксплуатации или наоборот)... здесь важна грамматика. Construction and exploitation = they, значит "are". Чисто имхо

 D-50

link 3.07.2008 11:45 
Construction and operation of [any] offshore oil storage facilities are not permitted.

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 11:59 
it sounds a bit strange, but are so are.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 12:13 
Лен, долг платежом красен:)

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 12:17 
не беги впереди паровоза.

 mirAcle

link 3.07.2008 12:18 
неприступная какая.
"but are so are." your words

 Lkovalskaya30

link 3.07.2008 12:23 
yes, but, well, my bad((

 langkawi2006

link 3.07.2008 15:09 
А простое детское правило из учебников разве уже отменили?
There is a chair and two tables in the room.
There are two tables and a chair in the room.

 D-50

link 3.07.2008 17:10 
at sea - это прикольно :-)())

 mirAcle

link 4.07.2008 3:32 
langkawi2006 - а причем именно ЭТО правило?
D-50 - Прикольно, да. Но это тест такой, какой есть, нужно лишь выбрать более или менее правильный ответ.

 mirAcle

link 4.07.2008 3:34 
2langkawi2006,
anyway, a chair and two tables ARE in the room.
two tables and a chair ARE in the room
am i right?

 nephew

link 4.07.2008 5:31 
a chair and two tables is the only furniture in the room
:)

 mirAcle

link 4.07.2008 5:42 
nephew, спасибо. так и напишу.
construction and operation of oil storage and tanks is the only thing that's banned:)

 D-50

link 4.07.2008 14:14 
at sea and exploit это малапропизм :-))

сравните: Он всегда аккуратно эксплуатирует нож и вилку когда употребляет пищу в вечернее время :-)))

offshore and operate :-)

 

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