Subject: Semi-Off: Think Twice Before Dropping English Articles gen. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/08/be-best-melania-trump-initiative-grammatical-flaw
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Be bestest, чо:) |
особую пикантность тексту придает то, что он опубликован органом, ставшим притчей во языцех по количеству опечаток и прочих преступлений против английского, и даже удостоившегося собственного погоняла http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Grauniad http://wordhistories.net/2017/06/05/origin-of-grauniad/ |
*ставшем лол |
ставшим таки антилол |
у сабжа с think once регулярно проблемы, какой там twice |
"The first lady’s native Slovenian, like most Slavic tongues..." Я что-то пропустил и в английском теперь слово tongue обозначает и орган речи, и средство коммуникации (и т.д.)? P.S. Про mother tongue в курсе :). |
почему "теперь"? всю жизнь означал |
Shumov, странно, насколько помню, всегда шло разграничение tongue - language. |
А, точно, нашел в кембриджском словаре это значение с пометой literary. Вопрос снимается :). |
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link 25.06.2018 23:25 |
This is the woman who, last week, went to a holding centre in Texas for immigrant children separated from their parents, to show her concern for them. So she arrived in a jacket saying 'I REALLY DON'T CARE. DO U?' Her spokeswoman later explained that the words didn't mean anything: "It’s just a jacket. There was no hidden message."(!) No-one in America seems to know what Melania meant by this. Donald Trump has been mangling the English language ever since he entered public life. All of his tweets seem to end in an exclamation mark – although no-one knows why. The grammar in a lot of them is incredibly bad. His latest gem was in a tweet he wrote only yesterday, justifying his plan to deport illegal immigrants immediately and without a trial: "We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately bring them back from where they came." If anyone understands this person, please let me know.... Perhaps Melania was taught by the same English teacher that taught her husband...? |
which only proves (if a proof were needed) that one doesn't need grammar to become a leader of the most powerful nation on the planet, or his wife yo! |
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link 25.06.2018 23:41 |
he is not just leader, he is leadest! |
grammest |
"Мне пофиг. А вам?" каждый троллит как умеет - Мелаша, как оказалось, умеет. риспект, чо? |
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link 26.06.2018 12:15 |
>>>When somebody comes in, we must immediately bring them back from where they came. Так сказать могут не только лишь все... |
Черномырдин с облака завидует - его переплёвывают :-) |
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link 26.06.2018 13:57 |
somebody -> they (не he и не she) Просто современный _политкорректный_ English. |
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link 26.06.2018 14:05 |
да там прикол в bring back from where they came вместо back to where they came from |
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link 26.06.2018 14:56 |
А, я на такое уже внимание не обращаю - привык. Понял, что он хотел сказать и хорошо. |
твит-грамматика имеет свои правила главное - чтобы тебя поняли те, кто тебе нужно так, как тебе нужно у него получается хорошо |
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link 26.06.2018 16:45 |
твит-грамматика это примерно как хип-хоп культура, да? |
типа да!) |
bring back from where they came вместо back to where they came from нас в Англии учили, что оба варианта приемлемы |
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link 27.06.2018 7:24 |
да кто там в вашей англии грамматику понимает? ))) |
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link 27.06.2018 15:17 |
edasi: No, you can't say that. It all depends on where you are and where the other person has moved to. If s.o.'s moved close to you from somewhere further away, it's: If s.o.'s moved from (close to you/amongst you) to somewhere further away, it's: You can't mix the two constructions, as that would be illogical in English. |
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link 27.06.2018 15:34 |
'to bring' in Trump's example implies moving (s.o./sth) towards where you are. Trump wants the migrants to go away from the US and back to the countries they came from, so it's 'send'. |
with respect, 'bring' and 'send' can mean the same thing in a large variety of contexts the cited tweet is just one example |
usage of 'bring' here emphasis protectiveness, i.e. the bringer will take active steps whereas 'to send' is less so, cf. 'sending someone away' vs. 'throwing them out' |
*protectiveness => proactiveness |
**emphasises ) |
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link 27.06.2018 16:53 |
That's why I said "in Trump's example".... |
в примере Трампа посто опущено to bring them back from where they came = bring them back [to] from where they came it is quite legit, if not necessarily elegant |
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link 27.06.2018 17:27 |
If the migrants have entered the US, the Americans can only 'bring them back to where they came from' if they (the Americans) firstly go to the foreign country/countries in question, eg Mexico, and 'bring' them back to Mexico. That's not what Trump's talking about; he's simply talking about sending them back home – getting them out of America. In the Trump example it's not just inelegant to say "bring them back", it's wrong. He can't "bring" them back to (say) Mexico unless he first goes (or his officials first go) to Mexico. It's 'send'! |
yes he can if you take something and bring (carry) it back to the point from where it came (originated), you do not necessarily need to be at the said point yourself in advance of the bringing. |
John is right |
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link 27.06.2018 19:43 |
** yes he can ** Oh no, he can't! If you don't believe me, see this Merriam-Webster definition of 'to bring back': "to convey, lead, carry, or cause to come along with one toward the place from which the action is being regarded" [my underlining]. The important bit is the bit I've underlined, which is what I meant by "It all depends on where you are". ** if you take something and bring (carry) it back to the point from where it came (originated), you do not necessarily need to be at the said point yourself in advance of the bringing. ** You'd have to either be at the said place in advance of it arriving, or you'd have to accompany it there. In both cases the action would have to be "regarded" (to quote M-W) from the place that the "something" was in originally; otherwise you'd have to use other verbs such as 'to send' or 'to take it back to the point from where it came', not 'to bring'. Remember that we're not talking about all of the many different uses of 'to bring' as used in umpteen different scenarios, nor about set expressions such as 'to bring s.o. to their senses', 'it brings back happy memories', 'to bring back capital punishment' etc; we're talking about the specific scenario of Trump saying that migrants have come to the US from other countries, and he wants them to be forced to go back. If Trump meant that he/his officials would accompany the migrants back to the countries they've come from and he was speaking as though he/his officials were in those countries when the migrants returned (see the M-W reference to 'regarded' again), it might make sense, but he clearly isn't saying this; he's speaking as someone in the US and he simply wants the migrants to go back to whichever country they came from. In that scenario, you can't say 'bring them back'; it's 'send them back', 'return them', 'take them back' (if they're to be accompanied), or any of several other verbs. But not 'bring'. |
Bring back, bring back, bring back that Leroy Brown ... Bag bad caused a mighty fine sensation - yeah, yeah Gone and got himself elected President - we want Leroy for President ... He's a big boy, bad boy, Leroy, I don't care where you get him from - dubby du dah, dubby du dah, dubby du dah Bring that big bad Leroy back - want him back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PflW5arQ2-o |
John, it's all well and good, but we are talking tweets here - slogans, soundbites, headlines &c. the 'message' in the presidential squawk is 'we will take them by the hand and march them right back to the US border', that is to say deport forcefully and/or under supervision, - exactly that 'to accompany', 'to see them out' &. And this is what the tweet aims to convey, and as far as I understand, succeeds in doing. What he probably wanted to write is 'kick them back' but then tempered it somewhat. |
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link 27.06.2018 22:58 |
** take them by the hand and march them right back to the US border ** That would be 'take them back to the US border'! The English classes you went to weren't also attended by a noisy, overweight boy with weird orange hair by any chance, were they? Just wondered..... ))) |
Nope, girls only!) Pssst... I never had an English class in my whole life! |
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link 28.06.2018 7:45 |
Summary: English grammar can't. Trump can (or thinks he can). ref. subject: odd space between "be" and "best" |
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