Subject: Деловая переписка - "Enclosed Please Find" Means You Lost It gen. Уважаемые знатоки!Изучая тонкости деловой переписки, нашла сие People who took business letter writing classes are told NEVER to say "enclosed please find" because it's redundant! I see correspondence using "enclosed please find“ on a daily basis. As the letter writer you are saying "enclosed" SO WHY would you say again, PLEASE FIND? It doesn't make sense. Так, все таки, как нынче принято писать о приложениях к письму? Всегда использовала "Please, find attached" Спасибо за ваши мнения! |
Так тоже пишут. Просто, очевидно, не так часто. enclosed please find... |
пишите просто I attach [such and such files] |
People who took business letter writing classes are told NEVER to say "never" |
однако: attached (enclosed для физических писем) please find есть всем понятное клише, поэтому, имхо, гораздо лучше пользоваться им, чем изобретать велосипед (reinvent the wheel), он же рунглиш. |
Shumov, это чтоб окончательно сбить с толку спасибо, улыбнуло |
Да, стандартная фразировка, которая, вероятно, некоторыми воспринимается как устаревшая или выходящая из использования. |
у меня аллергия на любые рекомендации касательно узуса, которые начинаются с "никогда" )) |
Автор предлагает использовать следующие формулировки: Here is . . . Но все же, чаще встречается именно "Please, find attached" , причем в исполнении англоязычных коллег (Великобритания, Швеция) |
автор просто умничает на ровном месте)) ждем возмущений формулой "I hope this finds you well an sound" |
*and |
Я так понимаю, что продолжая писать "Please, find attached" в письмах с приложениями, я не рискую выглядеть учительницей английского из прошлого, а по-прежнему сохраняю деловой тон и не более того. |
"I hope this finds you well an sound" Мистер Дарси? |
Вы не поверите, но я не далее как вчера получил письмо (от руки. в конверте. с маркой), которое начиналось с "I hope this finds you in a perfectly fowl mood, for I have some rather funny things to report to you from our blessed little bower..." |
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link 12.10.2017 13:09 |
мои бриты по переписке не парятся ваще... I am attaching this ... this .. and ..... this ... фчем проблема? |
буря в стакане |
избавьтесь от запятой после please, и будет норм |
Спасибо! А что с запятой? |
Shumov, Цилиндр с тростью прилагался? ;) |
если вы не пытаетесь поставить акцент на слове please, не ставьте после него запятую. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/389/in-what-cases-should-i-use-a-comma-after-please |
нет, цилиндра не было. зато в тексте присутствовали описки, logical fallacy (1 шт.), LOL (2 шт.) и смайлик. живой английский язык.)) |
Спасибо! |
Shumov, you are very accurate |
В имейлах - естественно attached, в бумажных посланиях - enclosed/ в имейлах часто вижу (please it find attached), (please see attached), Attached, is..... В конвертах только пару раз в вводном письме была ссылка на прилагаемые документы после их перечисления: "(enclosed)" |
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link 12.10.2017 16:26 |
The author's expressing a purely personal opinion and being very pedantic. I think he needs to get himself a hobby. Everyone says 'please find (attached/enclosed)' or '(attached/enclosed) please find'/; they're standard phrases used in business letters and aren't archaic at all, although 'ult.' and 'prox.' definitely are. They've not been used for decades, although a few legal firms may still use them. 'inst.' is still used sometimes, but is dying out. Most businesses now just name the month: 'We refer to our letter of May 12th'. 'Here is . . .' doesn't sound very businesslike to me. It sounds more like a phrase you'd find in 'chatty' literature/adverts, or in a letter to your friends or family. The rest of the phrases in the author's list are already in wide use, so why has he "suggested" them...? If you got rid of all of the phrases in English which some people find slightly illogical or old-fashioned, half the language would disappear! |
well, he lost me at "Back in 80’s"! it's "back in the 80s" |
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link 12.10.2017 18:42 |
Exactly! Also he describes the phrase as "archaic", but also says "I see correspondence using 'enclosed please find' on a daily basis." Well, it can't be very archaic if it's still in daily use, can it...? What he means is "I don't like it". It's the Thought Police (Полиция мыслей)! There's a humorous expression in the UK for someone who writes to the 'Letters' columns of newspapers to complain about anything and anyone they happen to be annoyed about that day. It's 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells'. Tunbridge Wells is a sleepy, middle-class town in south-east England with a large retired population. The phrase refers to self-opinionated people who write diatribes in the media about.... well, anything, because they've too much free time on their hands. "'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' was the nom de plume of a prolific writer of letters to the London Times during the first half of the 20th century. His alias became almost as widely known as the title of the newspaper itself, and was synonymous with diatribe. He delivered scathing attacks on organisations and individuals that came to his ultra-critical attention." Clearly the author's a descendant of 'Disgusted'!
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that's an interesting tidbit of information! I have a friend (in his 30s) who lives in Tunbridge Wells, a translator who's branching out into stand-up comedy. I wonder how he'll react to being called this ;) |
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link 12.10.2017 20:17 |
Ha! Ha! You're not being serious, are you? |
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link 12.10.2017 20:46 |
"I'm from Tunbridge Wells." |
sure I'm serious, why? are you on Facebook? I can add you to his standup comedy group so you can see for yourself :) |
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link 12.10.2017 21:00 |
is the facebook group public? name? |
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link 12.10.2017 21:01 |
(one can only add their "friends" to facebook groups) |
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link 13.10.2017 4:21 |
Посмотрел в Oxford handbook of commerical correspondence: If there are any documents enclosed with a letter, although these may be mentioned in the body of the letter, it is also common to write Enc. or Encl. below signature block. If there are a number of documents, these can be listed, e.g.: Enc. |
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link 13.10.2017 4:41 |
Также там есть пример письма: Dear Mr. Medway Thank you for your detailed advice of 15 May. We have now effected shipment to our cusmomers in New Zealand and enclose the shipping documents you asked for and our draft for GBP 23,100 which includes your discount, commission and charges. Will you please accept the draft and remit the proceeds to our account at the Mainland Bank, Oxford street, Londod W1A AA. Yours sincerely, |
Доброе утро! И спасибо всем за ответы! |
I attach... - сильно, но самоутверждающе:) |
illy1 почему "но"? :) |
а меня тоже заитересовал такой вираж карьеры из переводил - в комики...:) мож, пропиарите товарища слегка? я бы сходил посмотрел его шоу. даже - возможно - купил бы билет О_О |
спасибо. любопытно. |
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link 14.10.2017 20:10 |
SirReal 23:57 – That's quite a coincidence! Well, if he lives in Tunbridge Wells, he'll have plenty of material for his jokes.... :-D Yes, I am on Facebook – but I only look at it two or three times a year now and haven't posted anything on it for 13 months. After reading dozens of postings such as "Hello, I'm walking along the pavement" and "Hello, here's a photograph of the toast I had for breakfast", I started to lose interest! I've now looked on it and found Konstantin's page and the Comedy Tapas page, though. So when's the world tour...? |
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