Subject: Two is two is either four, or two up, two down. cinema Подскажите, пожалуйста, что может означать эта фраза?Контекст: персонаж экспрессивно комментирует книгу. Затем он расстреливает машину, в которой находятся два человека. Это фраза из фильма It couldn't happen here. Абзац полностью, монолог: Numbers must add up. Two and two is four. Right! Let's restore some bloody logic. Shells, buckets, and teacups. Silly buggers. What about mowing the lawn? Contact! What about... What about the mortgage! Two and two is either four, or two up, two down. Divided by, divided by, divided by... Отрывок из фильма прилагается: https://yadi.sk/i/pHdJfsHUungv5 |
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link 5.09.2016 13:19 |
johnstephenson Thanks anyway)) |
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link 5.09.2016 18:14 |
тут надо капитально переосмысливать-перефразировать, ибо "два и два" в русском никак не ассоциируются с двушкой-квартирой, а "двух спальных - двух гостинных" у нас в речевых выражениях устойчивых нет. типа "хоть два плюс два, хоть дважды два - всё равно будет четыре" или что-то подобное. |
crockodile Да, мы тоже так думаем. И ещё есть предположение, что речь тут, всё же, не о квартире или доме. У нас есть вариант, что это может значит что-то вроде "Два и два - или четыре, или два в приход, два в расход" (или "два в плюсе, два в минусе"). И, возможно, там ещё какая-то игра слов, ведь, как сказал trtrtr - "two men down" может означать "двое убиты", "двоих в расход". |
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link 5.09.2016 18:28 |
мне что-то подсказывает, что вариант джонстивенсона ближе. |
Возможно и так. Тогда нам надо постараться обдумать, как это можно связать с контекстом... Пока ничего не приходит в голову. |
Просто я видела, на одном сайте фразу That's two down, one to go. и её перевод как "Два в минусе, остался один". И ещё фразу What, because I'm up? с переводом "Это потому что я в плюсе?". И решила, поэтому, что можно и так интерпретировать. Тем более сразу после этого персонаж пытается расстрелять двоих людей. |
Если он у вас пытается расстрелять двоих людей, то "два в приход, два в расход" - отличный вариант, имхо. |
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link 5.09.2016 19:51 |
'One/two etc up/down' is also used by football match commentators when giving the latest scores. So if it's Everton 2 West Ham 0, they'll typically say "10 minutes left and Everton are two up" or "West Ham are two down". However, the speaker in this clip doesn't mention sport. He does mention "the mortgage" in the same breath as "two up, two down" though. I've absolutely no idea what this chap's blabbering on about. This is why I avoid watching fiction -- no imagination! |
вот у меня давно было подозрение, что даже носители у "них" далеко не всегда друг друга понимают -(( |
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link 5.09.2016 20:29 |
I understand exactly what he's saying, I've just no idea why he's saying any of it! |
Syrira Спасибо)) Мне кажется, тут чисто английская игра слов, которая сочетает одновременно два или больше смыслов. И two up, two down означает одновременно и дом, и "два в приход, два в расход" как счёт. Ведь он говорит тут и об ипотеке "What about mortgage?" Видимо, тут какой-то сложный каламбур, и русский язык его во всей полноте не вместит)) "Два в приход два в расход" это тоже вроде бы каламбур, но попроще. johnstephenson Yes, I think too, that it has to do with mortgage like one of mentions this multiple play of words, but it extremely difficult to combine in russian translate, I suppose... What do you think is this possible? |
With mortgage and house, I mean. And with calculation too. |
johnstephenson I think, maybe this pilot is mad debtor ? |
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link 5.09.2016 22:22 |
I've no idea how you'd translate it into Russian, I'm afraid, as I've never been an En-Ru translator -- only a Ru-En one. Others with native Russian will give you a much better answer. However, as it's a peculiarly British expression, you may find you have to paraphrase it heavily, or even leave it out. I can't detect any play on words in the way he says 'two up, two down'. Could it perhaps be a reference to a mortgaged house + the wings on his biplane??? Strictly speaking, his plane's only got two wings -- one above and one below -- but the writer could be using literary licence. I really have no idea. I don't really understand what he's talking about, because he seems to switch to a new subject every few seconds. Debtor? I don't know, but he definitely does come across as mad. Either that, or he's on hard drugs! You could try asking Steve Munslow, who's a regular contributor to Lingvo and also a UK native. He's far more cultured than me! |
To answer this question one must read the book, watch the movie and listen to the song. Plot: They arrive at a transport cafe where they're sat next to a traveller (Gareth Hunt). They order an inappropriate gourmet meal, but the waitress doesn't flinch. At another table a pilot (Neil Dickson, more or less reprising his lead role in Biggles: Adventures in Time), fiddles frustratedly with a hand-held computer game that says "divided by... divided by... zero" (taking lyrics from "Two divided by zero"). A voice from the traveller's briefcase asks to be let out and the traveller does so, revealing a ventriloquist's dummy. The dummy starts philosophising about the concept of time. He asks whether time can be likened to a teacup in that a teacup is no longer a teacup if no one has the intention to use it as such. To shut him up Neil puts a record on the jukebox ("Rent") and the wall of the cafe rises to reveal some dancers. Meanwhile, the pilot is seen back in his office reading W.H. Newton-Smith's book 'A Structure of Time'. After a while he reaches a conclusion that "the dummy's a blasted existentialist". He boards his plane, determined to put an end to such daftness. Neil and Chris are driving along a country lane, when the pilot attacks. "Two Divided By Zero" is playing. The car is covered with bullet holes but the Pet Shop Boys drive on, again unharmed. The pilot's monologue piece is known to be extracted from Newton-Smith's book. Monologue: "But in this sense... there will be no time. If there were no be... if there were no beings capable of reason. It is the sense in which, there will be no food, were there no organisms, and no tea cups, if there were no tea drinkers. I say, what an extraordinary idea. A world with no tea cups. There could be things that look like what in our world, teacups look like, well I'll be damned! The dummy is a blasted existentialist. There could be things that could be used to drink tea from; Buckets, shells, and so on. But teacups are the things that we use to drink tea! And in that sense, we are as much a cultural object, as chess... or the Polonaise. Well... this puts things in jolly different light. Crushed ice and seaweed trimmings... of course! The thinly sliced buttered brown bread... and fingerbowls. That's it! I'll give them bloody seaweed fingerbowls, thinly sliced crushed brown ice! I'll give them bloody teacups! Buckets! And shells! Those silly buggers! Numbers must add up. Two and two is four. Right! Let's restore some bloody logic. Shells, buckets, and teacups. Silly buggers. What about mowing the lawn? Contact! What about... What about the mortgage! Two and two is either four, or two up, two down. Divided by, divided by, divided by" Song: "Two Divided By Zero" (Two divided by zero, zero) Let's not go home, we'll catch the late train (Divided by, divided by) I think they heard a rumour We'll catch a plane to New York, and a cab going down (Divided by, divided by) Let's not go home (Two divided by zero, zero) (Turn of that noise...) (Divided by, divided by) Someone spread a rumour So why hang around for the deed to be done (Divided by, divided by) I think they heard a rumour (Divided by, divided by) Someone spread a rumour |
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link 6.09.2016 1:40 |
Thanks, Amor 71. All is now revealed (well, most of it). How strange. I'm not really into surrealist films like this. Not my cup of tea, you could say.... I bought a couple of PSB tracks in the '80s but hadn't heard this one. Now I've heard it, I still won't be buying it. And I don't think I'll be buying the film, either! |
johnstephenson I think if it expression would has only one meaning - for example "a house", it could be easier to translate, than if it would has two or more meanings - house, and some others, etc. Therefore it especially heavily for native Russian, I think. Maybe meaning, as you say, about wings of his plane. Thank you for your suggestions and link. Maybe it have to Amor 71 Thank you. I didn't read this book, because I can't find in the public domain even summury of the book - "The Structure of Time" by W Newton-Smith. Maybe, that's the point. |