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 kath

link 1.05.2011 19:12 
Subject: зверобой
Context:

В ленинской комнате охранники затеяли игру. Она называлась "Тигр идет".
Все уселись за стол. Выпили по стакану зверобоя.

Dictionary calls it St. John's Wort but above they're drinking it like home-brewed alcohol. Any thoughts?

 10-4

link 1.05.2011 19:18 
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B9
Имеется в виду "Zveroboy" - настойка на зверобое, Herbal Vodka

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 19:19 
А позже в аптеках активно раскупали настойку овса, она была еще дешевле. :)))
А настойку калгана (тоже растение) делали дома даже некоторые приличные люди. Как бы в лечебных целях. Но тоже пили.

Спиртовая настойка зверобоя (экстракт): 4 столовые ложки травы залить 100 мл. спирта, настоять в тёмном месте около 10 дней. Затем настойку процедить, принимать не более чем по 50 капель 3 раза в день.

Если настойку готовят на водке, то дозу приёма увеличивают. Для наружного применения (полосканий) её добавляют в воду, по 30-40 капель на 0,5 стакана воды.

 10-4

link 1.05.2011 19:20 
Какая аптека?
Этот популярный ранее напиток продавался в любом винном магазине.

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 19:20 

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 19:21 
10-4 прав, это было уже после Довлатова (я и написала "позже")

 natrix_reloaded

link 1.05.2011 19:23 
В гуголь не лазила, сама не пробовала, но "из детства" припоминаю-
вроде это типа водки, только на травах настояна. Вроде, в магазине... Была "Зубровка" и был "Зверобой"...

 Codeater

link 1.05.2011 19:25 
Зверобой (herbal vodka, в принипе, и есть) продавался в магазинах, в отличие от калгана, который никогда не продавался. У меня теща (тогда еще не была оной) этим делом увлекалась в одном маленьком гарнизонном городке. Почему покупали Зверобой вместо водки я уже не помню, но видимо потому, что в тот момент не было водки. Зверобой, скажем так, на любителя. В этом видимо и Довлатовский прикол. Опять же как звучит ЗВЕ-РО-БОЙ. ZVE-ROW-BOY. Круть! :))

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 19:28 
Codeater, во втором ряду, справа:
28 градусов, можно стаканАми глушить, да и недорого
опять же, лечебное %-О))

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 19:29 
И игра-то ведь "Тигр идет"!!! Конечно, под "Зверобой", как же иначе?

 kath

link 1.05.2011 20:01 
So is it accurate to say that in the 60's and 'na zone' they made it themselves from the herbs and pure alcohol?

 kath

link 1.05.2011 20:03 
TanteB - although obviously this nuance cannot be translated, sadly

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 20:06 
Думаю, что все-таки покупали вот этот
http://www.dagirs.info/vodka.htm
во втором ряду, справа

делать самим хорошо дома, а не на службе (условий нет)

 Tante B

link 1.05.2011 20:08 
kath, а нельзя ли обыграть название растения и название романа Фенимора Купера, который в переводе называется "Зверобой"?
(я его в детстве по-русски читала)

 kath

link 1.05.2011 20:19 
TanteB - I read Cooper too as a child. The Leatherstocking series. Am not sure which one is which, but I'd venture a guess that Russian Zveroboi was a translation for Deerslayer. So no, it won't work. People think that Dovlatov's prose is easy, but he picked each word very carefully and it becomes even more evident when you try to translate. The translation is bound to lose.

 Codeater

link 1.05.2011 20:20 
kath, no, in a correctional facility officialy there was no "pure alcohol" (ethanol). When on a very rare occasion they had a chance to get any alcohol in jail, they would never bother to put herbs in it.:)) Zveroboy has absolutely nothing to do with jail culture, it was commercially available alcoholic beverage. In jail, they would drink vodka, smuggled in by friends with the help of corrupt wardens, moonshine (shit you put in a bucket to stand until it starts to turn and release gas), or most frequently "chifir", an absolutely legit prison drink, a veeerrrry strong black tea. That's about it. The drinking culture in jail is a ... not a diverse one. :)

 kath

link 1.05.2011 20:38 
so then are you saying that they would have been able to buy 'zveroboy' in the nearest store? even if it's in the taiga?

 kath

link 1.05.2011 20:40 
also, these aren't the prisoners getting drunk but the guards themselves.

(they also made shoe polish sandwiches - you put layers of shoe polish on bread and let the alcohol seep out from the polish saturating the bread. then the polish layer would be cut off the bread and the rest eaten. really disgusting!)

 Oo

link 1.05.2011 20:58 
Bath-tub gin or home made vodka was quite usually infused with the St. John's Wort herb.
Call it St. John's Wort (infused) vodka for short.

 kath

link 1.05.2011 21:04 
Thanks Oo but I can't. It does not relate in English. If I were to call something "St John's Wort Vodka" it would appear posh and inappropriate for the setting in which it's taking place, even though it is technically accurate. (Different cultural realities).

 10-4

link 1.05.2011 21:46 
Zveroboy is the only word you can use in this context. Nobody "translate" names of booze--German schnaps, Italian grappa, Georgian chacha, US whiskey, etc. remain untranslated in Russian and even not explained to the reader. Everybody knows! So Russian Zveroboy shall remain Zveroboy in English.

 kath

link 1.05.2011 22:22 
Not really, 10-4, because Zveroboy is an herb in Russian that exists in English as St. John's Wort, and so unless you qualify Zveroboy (the drink) to distinguish it somehow from Zveroboy (the herb), it becomes difficult. Besides, I'm not Rita Kovaleva and don't have the talent to introduce new terms :)

 lisulya

link 1.05.2011 22:59 
Kath, are you allowed to use footnotes? It seems like Zveroboi in this case would be a good candidate... I'm just sayin' )

 kath

link 1.05.2011 23:05 
No, generally in non-academic editions we are told not to use footnotes unless completely unavoidable. Here, it really isn't that relevant to the story precisely what they were drinking. Vodka works here well enough.

 lisulya

link 1.05.2011 23:16 
Home-made or store-boufgt? technically, it could be either, but probably the former since it's used without quotation marks and is not capitalized.

 kath

link 1.05.2011 23:25 
the qualifier, in my opinion, is not necessary since does not drive the story. i'm only editing the existing translation, made in the 80's. it said vodka (after a lot of research - not only on multitran), i decided to leave as is.

 10-4

link 2.05.2011 9:09 

 10-4

link 11.05.2011 12:41 
Пример из классического перевода русских реалий:

Meanwhile the disheartened fire inspector had descended an attic ladder
backwards and was now back in the kitchen, where he saw five citizens digging into a barrel of sauerkraut and bolting it down. They ate in ilence. Pasha Emilevich alone waggled his head in the style of an epicurean and, wiping some strings of cabbage from his moustache, observed:
"It's a sin to eat cabbage like this without vodka."
"Is this a new intake of women?" asked Ostap.
"They're orphans," replied Alchen, shouldering the inspector out of the
kitchen and surreptitiously shaking his fist at the orphans.
"Children of the Volga Region?"
Alchen was confused.
"A trying heritage from the Tsarist regime?"
Alchen spread his arms as much as to say: "There's nothing you can do with a heritage like that."
"Co-education by the composite method?"
Without further hesitation the bashful Alchen invited the fire
inspector to take pot luck and lunch with him.
Pot luck that day happened to be a bottle of Zubrovka vodka, home-pickled mushrooms, minced herring, Ukrainian beet soup containing first-grade meat, chicken and rice, and stewed apples.

 Sjoe! moderator

link 11.05.2011 12:55 
Вообще-то они ели kraut, о чем тремя строками выше.
Коннотация "Поволжья" ухнула... Да много чего пострадало. Даже в снисходительном свете терпимого Эко. Бит-суп. Ага. Bоrsht тогда еще не было.
Слабо, слабо...

 nephew

link 11.05.2011 13:02 
это ужасно
RusLit doesn't travel

 vasya_krolikov

link 11.05.2011 13:49 
Московский бит! (с)

 

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