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 kath

link 7.01.2011 0:40 
Subject: групповое дело
Greetings

Could someone tell me what it means to be sentenced according to a групповое дело - in other words, does it mean the person was sentenced in a group or the crime that was committed was a group crime? And what are the implications?

Context: (more Dovlatov)

Хочу красивую девушку, спортсменку! Дайте мне спортсменку! Сколько я должен ждать?!
Контролёр без раздражения ответил:
Минимум, лет шесть. И то, если освободят досрочно. У тебя же групповое дело.
Зэк не обратил внимания и продолжал кричать:

 silly.wizard

link 7.01.2011 1:15 
i have no direct experience, but here is what i got from hearsay, literature, movies, and such:
[unless these are political prisoners]
i think it means a crime (or series of crimes) committed in conspiracy with others - i.e. a "group crime", and all members would probably be tried in same court
there was such notion in soviet criminal law, and it generally assumed longer sentences (because the fact of conspiracy, among other things, meant the crime had to be pre-meditated)
note: even when all members of such group are tried in the same court, each member would get individual sentence

 Yippie

link 7.01.2011 1:21 
несколько человек собрались и все вместе, одновременно, обворовали квартиру девушки, пока она спортом занималась.
Главное - все и одновременно. Вот это и есть "групповуха"

 Wolverin

link 7.01.2011 1:29 
Hi kath,

"групповое дело" is a legal definition, "group criminal case file". Suppose, a group of people is engaged in criminal activities (i.e., they form a gang), then caught by cops, and later convicted in a court of law. It is common to receive harsher punishment (a longer sentence) for the crime one has committed if he/she is a gang mamber (as compared to the same crime committed by a "lone criminal"). A gang may even include 2 persons:)).

In that story that guy had to do a rather long 6 year-time precisely because he was convicted as a gang member.

 123:

link 7.01.2011 1:41 
... he was convicted for a group crime...

 kath

link 7.01.2011 1:47 
Thanks everyone!

Hi Wolverin, I would be careful with the use of the word "gang". Gang is different from group.

But I do understand what you all are saying - basically a group crime carries a harsher sentence because of conspiracy (clearly premeditated). Now I need to research English-language law to see if there's something similar.

Am going to look up things under "group criminal case file". Thanks again!

 Wolverin

link 7.01.2011 2:19 
Well, once again kath, I am not admitted to the Bar. Nevertheless, in the U.S. a gang was (and is) one thing; in the USSR in the 60s a gang might be equal to a group of criminals. The Lingvo Law Dict. gives the following:

gang 1) группа, шайка, банда .....2) банда 3) гэнг (гангстерская банда)

But perhaps it would be safer to avoid "gang" not to provoke any "modern"
connotations. You won. I stand corrected :))

 kath

link 7.01.2011 2:26 
I didn't know I was in this for a win! :))

There are actually legal distinctions here between group and gang crime. The basic underlying difference, very loosely, is that a "gang" is a group of individuals that share interests, pastimes, etc... and members of a gang may commit a "gang crime" even if the crime is committed by one gang member but is related to gang business. A "group crime" is a crime committed by 2 or more persons colluding to achieve an end where everyone benefits from mutual collaboration and the return (on a crime) is proportionately larger than had it been committed by one person.

I hope that's not too convoluted. There are actually dissertations on this subject and I have no idea why I know this :))

 Wolverin

link 7.01.2011 2:54 
Just a side note.
Come to think of it, both group and gang crimes are well represented in Hollywood movies:))
"Reservoir Dogs" is an excellent example of the former.

 kath

link 7.01.2011 5:25 
So true and damn good movie at that. Perhaps my fave by Tarantino.

 Sjoe! moderator

link 7.01.2011 8:05 
Re. the implications: A crime committed in a group is an aggravated crime ("case" in the cop/warden jargon). Aggravated "cases" are not entitled to a paroles. The warden says the convict cannot expect a parole, even after 6 years, the statutory parole minimum for an unaggravated "case".

 Sjoe! moderator

link 7.01.2011 8:06 
*A parole

 123:

link 7.01.2011 8:18 
***A crime committed in a group is an aggravated crime***

... разве из этого следует, что "Аn aggravated crime is a crime committed in a group"?

Мне кажется, что нет... поэтому "group criminal case" (групповуха, тассазать) в данном конкретном случае поточнее будет ...

Поясню мысель на примере:

Юрист - человек ... ннно не всякий человек - юрист...:)))

 123:

link 7.01.2011 8:26 
Этот пассаж (см. ниже) можно указать в примечании ... сделать сноску...

A crime committed in a group is an aggravated crime ("case" in the cop/warden jargon). Aggravated "cases" are not entitled to a paroles. The warden says the convict cannot expect a parole, even after 6 years, the statutory parole minimum for an unaggravated "case".

 

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